When to shop, and what?

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When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:55 pm

So when do you go to shop and what do you buy?

I like to go home with either 1100 gas and buy manareg and manapot/manacard, depending on the hero you play and the hero you lane vs (if you can potkill or not, if he can potkill you or not). Or 700 gas and buy manapot and manacard. Then i always tries to time in manapot kill with manacard (if you play hero that needs mana to kill tank that is) around 10 mins so you can take exptank before respawn time.
I get speed either after first or second manareg.
If i get forced home early i always buy manacard (if my hero can use it).
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1st item

Post  Marcus on Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:53 pm

1st item should always be Mana pot or Mana card (melee or caster respectively). you can also opt for mana regen but i dont. soul hunter excluded. (a lot of builds)

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  SungJ on Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:29 pm

This depends heavily on the characters.
Some characters like Soul Hunter may rely less on small expenses (mana card/pot) early game
while others like Force Fire require heavy pot/card style.
This tendency of shop may also depend on players' styles as well.

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Marcus on Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:56 pm

oh and btw never mana pot with geist **

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:33 am

Personally i really dont like pot first. And saving money for a push with manareg + manacard can be more effective than go manacard at 350 gas. Depends on when u want map controll and what role u have in your team.
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Marcus on Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:59 am

why save?

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Thrallsa on Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:20 am

I always go 1100 for pot+regen first, going early pot/card is just so unreliable and if you fail its more often than not gg.

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:16 pm

Marcus wrote:why save?

Well with manacard you are buying a finite amount of mana, with manareg you are buying an growing amount of mana over time. So in some sense its better to buy manareg, more economic in the long term.
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Marcus on Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:50 pm

Modesty wrote:
Marcus wrote:why save?

Well with manacard you are buying a finite amount of mana, with manareg you are buying an growing amount of mana over time. So in some sense its better to buy manareg, more economic in the long term.

risk to lose against ppl who invest in mana card first, they will initially outfarm you and buy 2 mana regens when u only have 1

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:06 pm

Yes both got cons and pros. Im not saying manareg is better than manacard. But sometimes with some heros is better to wait.
And in some match-ups you win with manareg manacard vs early manacard.
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  SungJ on Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:45 pm

When and how to use mana card mostly depends on players' tendency.
It is always good to have a clear purpose or goal for using that card, though.
I personally think making efficient use of mana card somewhat requires precise calculation of creeps and gas.

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:21 pm

SungJ wrote:When and how to use mana card mostly depends on players' tendency.
It is always good to have a clear purpose or goal for using that card, though.
I personally think making efficient use of mana card somewhat requires precise calculation of creeps and gas.

Thats a good point. And the purpose can be to push him back and try to get back if you feel behind. Or taking exptanks at right timings, or killing creeep and pushing him back at right timings.
I did som calculations with abel manacard vs manareg. After ~350 sec ur manapack will give you more mana per gas (thats 3,5 manacards in constant use). So you should try to balance not getting behind now and not getting behind in the long run.


* edit

How du you feel about a relatively early health reg?
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Marcus on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:40 pm

Modesty wrote:
SungJ wrote:When and how to use mana card mostly depends on players' tendency.
It is always good to have a clear purpose or goal for using that card, though.
I personally think making efficient use of mana card somewhat requires precise calculation of creeps and gas.

Thats a good point. And the purpose can be to push him back and try to get back if you feel behind. Or taking exptanks at right timings, or killing creeep and pushing him back at right timings.
I did som calculations with abel manacard vs manareg. After ~350 sec ur manapack will give you more mana per gas (thats 3,5 manacards in constant use). So you should try to balance not getting behind now and not getting behind in the long run.


* edit

How du you feel about a relatively early health reg?

health regen does not help in battle, thus do not buy health regen.

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:44 pm

Marcus wrote:
How du you feel about a relatively early health reg?

health regen does not help in battle, thus do not buy health regen.

What heroes do you play?
Sometimes you survive a fight, and then u can heal up without going to health station, saves time and time = exp.
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  SungJ on Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:09 pm

for characters like phantom gazette that focus only on pushing,
health regen pack may be useful for saving time going back to recovery station.

health regen pack was buffed in the patch so it's not like total waste like before,
but marcus is right about the fact that it doesn't help in pvp with pots.

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  SadFace on Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:39 pm

health regen + shield regen is useful if ur the carry otherwise dont bother unless ur basically a support/pest that doesnt do much but fuck u other lanes for ppl

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:17 am

SadFace wrote:health regen + shield regen is useful if ur the carry otherwise dont bother unless ur basically a support/pest that doesnt do much but fuck u other lanes for ppl

I am always both of that.
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  laserrain on Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:23 am

i used to buy health regen first. nowadays i usually buy pot and shields first.

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Marcus on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:33 pm

early panther vs soul hunter (who wants all the dps he can get) will screw him up 100%

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  SadFace on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:43 pm

unless he decides to icemage the panther xD

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Marcus on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:58 pm

SadFace wrote:unless he decides to icemage the panther xD


my build involves getting ice mage at lvl 4. early might be around lvl 2-3

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Issoloc on Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:44 am

What you buy depends on the character your playing as well as your play style. If your, say, a fast laner, mana regen with a hp pot works best for that. Or, if your a melee such as bladehunter, you will want to use more mana pots with a card. If your vs a melee, expect them to pot and have an hp pot available. If your in a pub, dont bother with mana pots and aim for the late game.


Also, I think early hp regen isnt worth the 500 gas it requires.

On the subject of mana card, I have no opinion, having not toyed with it enough

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:15 pm

U dont think early hp reg is worth money but you buy early hp-pot?
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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  SadFace on Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:56 pm

tbh sometimes that early hp pot completely RUINS some ideas lol

eg lur vs bh the first bh pot kill is a xzc spam of some kind which if u run away with a health pot u dont even really get forced back to heal and he looks like a dumbass and u come out on top with 50 gas

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Re: When to shop, and what?

Post  Modesty on Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:59 pm

SadFace wrote:tbh sometimes that early hp pot completely RUINS some ideas lol

eg lur vs bh the first bh pot kill is a xzc spam of some kind which if u run away with a health pot u dont even really get forced back to heal and he looks like a dumbass and u come out on top with 50 gas

Thats true, but most time you just dies to burst.
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