Current mapmaking situation

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Current mapmaking situation

Post  SungJ on Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:11 am

1. SemiKim temporarily left for military service.
2. He gave the mapfile to IUPrime.
3. IUPrime regards it as a "bomb" and does not want to take the job.
4. KR is looking for a new mapmaker.

5. Meanwhile, LALA wants to make some content changes by himself as a test version,
since there is no mapmaker to say anything about it.

What do you think about LALA's idea to try make new NA/EU content of CT temporarily? (e.g. Igniz Mode)

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  NoonEe on Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:14 am

Im ok with that... but what if KR finds a new mapmaker? Will we throw away all the changes? Will you send him the moded file? I dunno, its worth a try
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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  NoonEe on Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:22 am

Hm... so if they find a new one we will see if we keep it? I think its a good idea, but it would also suck to play with one version for 2-3 weeks and then get a completly other one :/
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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:53 am

can u obliterate fang? since we didnt get the fang nerf patch

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  Macanas on Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:10 am

Macanas hero!

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  pacman on Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:23 am

ummm, i think this could be a good idea.
my only concern is Lala's ability to judge/balance game.

as far as i know, he rarely plays anymore (mayb just on at different times than me or on korea server?).

if this is to happen, i would hope for a couple of really good players to help us out (AND ONLY A COUPLE OF REALLY GOOD PLAYERS)

sorry, but this basically disqualifies everyone i know (i'm not interested in balance, although i usually predict the changes before they come Very Happy)

if you do this, i would suggest to lala making a "balance council" of whatever koreans you can round up. maybe krk could make a post on kr website asking some of the top players to give balance suggestions? (yes, krk artemis and i are super-pro-invincible-gosus, but i think NA people contributing to balance would be wrong. none of us play at the highest level of play).

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:26 am

agreed with pac in terms of who can suggest shit, i maintain nobody in eu(including myself) can really offer balance tho i will say plz for the love of god just obliterate fang

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  pacman on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:09 am

oh, and how long is temporarily?

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  Cyclo on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:39 am

If this is our map for NA. Then why can't NA decide balance? We don't think that certain characters are OP/UP. We disagree because we aren't as good as them. They can say blinkers/charge canceling was OP. No one in NA thought charge canceling was OP since no one charge cancels like Koreans. It wouldn't need to be nerfed here and if it did(aka someone abuses it) lala could do it.


If the map is for NA then let NA balance it. Mostly Korean balance changes are "oh crap this one player is doing this gosu thing witht his character that hasn't been done yet, nerf it." We however weren't doing what they were doing so what problems do we have with this OP thing that we can abuse but nobody knows/is able to do it here. if we're making an NA map let's let NA balance it.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:45 am

that falls apart once ppl get good enough to get anywhere near what koreans are capable of...

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  pacman on Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:51 am

yah cyclo this is the reason that, although people don't like it, bronze leaguers cant comment on balance in regular sc2.

the balancers let them have their forums, and talk their talk.
but, at the end of the day, they only listen to the grandmasters and watch the professional tournaments.


thats why we have this forum. so we don't get bored doing homework.
99% of what is on here is uniformed garbage.


im not trolling now. this is serious pacman. i don't wanna see this map get fucked over by people like cyclo (nothing personal to him, just using the name of a person who wants NA balance as my example) who think they have a "good understanding" of the map or its balance.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  pacman on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:19 am

bye bye ct

HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO LALA LAND


if you are gonna ruin the map... fuck it. imma get nobeard to teach me how to starbattle like a baller

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  imtd on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:25 am

SungJ wrote:1. SemiKim temporarily left for military service.
2. He gave the mapfile to IUPrime.
3. IUPrime regards it as a "bomb" and does not want to take the job.
4. KR is looking for a new mapmaker.

5. Meanwhile, LALA wants to make some content changes by himself as a test version,
since there is no mapmaker to say anything about it.

What do you think about LALA's idea to try make new NA/EU content of CT temporarily? (e.g. Igniz Mode)
let me be mapmaker i am pro ill just nerf judgement

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  Plice on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:28 am

Kind of playing devils advocate here but, if the map is only affecting us. Why would we be balancing it for them? Obviously nobody in na or eu can play at top korean level. So why would we be balancing it to their standards? Once someone in NA/EU hits a point where it is obviously op we nerf it. To argue with pacmans point of bronze league, if we are balancing a game for *only* bronze league (we would only be editing our version, not korea) Why would we balance it with top level players in mind? If we don't have the micro capabilities of koreans, then heroes op for them wouldn't be op for us. Nerfing them would just make it underpowered if anything.

I've noticed that the heroes that everyone in na/eu can agree upon being op are generally the easy to master heroes. I'm not sure how much koreans consider the difficulty of a certain character when talking about balance but I would assume not much. This makes it difficult for us because of how it is tailored to them and their insane micro.

I personally have the opinion that it really doesn't matter to us at all. We can all improve so much at city of tempest that balance honestly shouldn't play a big role in who wins. The person with more skill should win. The only way we could possibly balance for us is to either make hard characters easier, or easier characters harder (but making characters easier is dumb so, that isn't an option) Very Happy
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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:37 am

LALA wrote:
I never had a problem with fang and I played vs idra yet you guys complain because of noobs....

iv played against him too and hes still the best fang iv seen but anyway, the fact is that a fang is practically unapproachable now with the current damage on his range (if u play as positionally as iDra/modesty (the next best fang iv seen))...

heck nostalgia's bh guide goes as far to say u shouldnt engage a fang who used up his mode without 70% health... (current EU/NA patch)

u just get worn down too quickly, especially with squishies... and a fang with about 3-5 health points at like level 12-15 can tank just about any combo including zava's sweetspot and just finish u off cos u would be like 50% health if u managed to get in range to do ur own combo...

iv seen far too many games where fang just essentially soloed/carried to victory cos he ends up with a slight level advantage that then snowballs outta control cos he's a mid-late beast and now is INCREDIBLY hard to shut down early

plz just reduce the damage of c and v to the prepatch states XD


Last edited by SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  Pseudoku on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:40 am

I say just wait for the Koreans. Maybe this is a good time to fix/improve the descriptions of all the abilities.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:45 am

thats also fine imo but we would love the current korean patch in eu XD

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  pacman on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:47 am

we aren't even up to date in NA.

give us the new patch that makes fang tier 3 before making your own balance plz.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SadFace on Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:49 am

or as i suggested completely obliterate him Very Happy but either option is cool XD

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SungJ on Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:50 am

OK OK this is going toward a wrong direction
I'm not expecting lala to work on "balance" just for ourselves, that sounds ridiculously silly to me.
He said he wanted to work on new stuff like Igniz Mode, so I was wondering if you would like these stuff added.
And, no mapmaker so far was any "pro" at CT.
It is more of how the mapmaker gets feedback from the players.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  Rip on Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:03 pm

Thats something I always did but you guys dont report anything

In EU we still have a few keys missing like b9's nuke f and geist's z some characters dont have the info (the lil yellow squares for speed power etc..) and that's about all i can think of but i dont really care cauz i dont use those anyway >.<

Oh and if u started creating some stuff and all do u think u could try ending this fucking drop issue or do u have absolutely no idea where it comes from and can't do anything about it anyway?

One thing I wanted to try is putting mana and health potions at 100 gas, maybe lower the limit to 2-3

I wanna see how it would change the game flow

It'd make the game way way way way way faster and heavy push oriented but if you wanna try makin changes like that u might wanna make a test server where u'll have a few experimented/skilled players to test it out and see if it works or not (as in fun to play or just ridiculous) like others said some kind of balance council would be good....thing is....who'd be objective enough to be in it?
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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  michi on Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:23 pm

dont like the cheap pots nobody will use mana reg and ppl just mass pot all the time, the max amount of 2 pots will be just good in lategame but early game will be ruined

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  pacman on Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:23 pm

lala im sorry, but i really think that u shouldn't mess with CT.

the korean mapmakers werent pros by korean standards, but at least they played the game.
just the fact you would replace igniz's ult with mode when the ult is his 1 redeeming factor tells me you don't understand this game enough to balance it.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  michi on Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:34 pm

i like the idea of 2 diffrent ultis for more heroes.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

Post  SungJ on Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:41 pm

pacman wrote:lala im sorry, but i really think that u shouldn't mess with CT.

the korean mapmakers werent pros by korean standards, but at least they played the game.
just the fact you would replace igniz's ult with mode when the ult is his 1 redeeming factor tells me you don't understand this game enough to balance it.

As LALA said it's just a 2nd option. Also we are here to give him feedbacks for what he does.
And most importantly SemiKim will be back on January, so LALA will need current version to backup anyway.

Now pacman and LALA, I don't want to hear both of you guys talking about "understanding of CT",
cuz from my view not only you guys don't differ a whole lot at all but also this topic is utterly meaningless.

The assumption that the mapmaker knows the best about balance is totally wrong.
Of course he will need to work on balance by listening to players' opinions and accepting the right information.
But in order to do this LALA should be ready to delete his creation at any time when it becomes problematic.

To be honest I trust LALA and like his idea but I don't know if this one month of experiment would work out nicely.

I'm okay if LALA wants to try some new things out, but I would most like to just bring over recent patch content.

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Re: Current mapmaking situation

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