ForceFire Guide

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ForceFire Guide

Post  anakko on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:24 pm

Ok guys, i'm certainly not the best ForceFire player out there, but i've played him quite a bit, and i feel like i can write a little guide to help people who would want to learn about him (even if it's in order to counter it Smile ).
This is the first guide i've ever written, so it's probably incomplete and any feedback is welcome, especially from good FF like pac or rooib (or if SungJ can convince him to come here, NenDD would be okay too)

So let's not wit any longer, here comes the terror of the early game, A.K.A ForceFire (well, unless arcane is around).

First off, let's talk about FF's autoattack.

This attack is, hum, insane. Although it has a short range, it also has a great aoe and a lot of dps. You litterally tear through the creep and it's extremely difficult not to lose ground vs a FF at the start.
Be careful though, this attack isn't instant, FF needs to make the attack motion before actually attacking. This means the attack comes with a delay. It is not suited to chase a fleeing opponent, because the time FF does his attack motion, the target will be out of range and the attack will fail. Don't chase fleeing targets that way, you won't connect unless they're really slow.

Let's continue with a little review of the spells FF is able to use :

(T, 50 mana) : Stimpack. Nothing special here, it's the regular stimpack/berserk the majority of heroes have. Improves atk and speed by a good bit, its the reason you put your first mineral into mana.

(Z, 75 mana) : Turret. An invincible turret that stays in place for a few seconds attacking any close enemy. This turret is interesting because it deals splash damage and can occasionnally be used to farm creep. But its main usage is on enemy buildings, it allows ForceFire to push efficiently and with little risk.

(X, 125 mana) : Fire Headbutt. THE spell that makes FF a strong hero. It is a targeted spell that teleports you to your target, dealing some damage (upgrade for more dmg and 35% slow, every little bit helps). It has a loooong range, a cd of 5 seconds and can be used even when normal blink spels would be neutralised (Abel's chaos beam, for example).
A really strong spell both for offense (it's the start of the potkill combo, it allows to instantly close the distance with the target) and defense (you can blink into a neutral building or a gas tank/crate to escape an enemy, change lane and so on).
If you want to master FF, mastering this spell is crucial. Ideally, you should always keep 125 mana when you're not sure you're safe, and always stay within blinking range of a target, just to be safe.

(C, 200 mana) : Flamebolt : A damage dealing spell centered on FF. It deals a good amount of damage for its cost, has a good range and is overall quite useful both for farming and sniping heroes.

(V, 250 mana) : Fire Buster : A ranged attack dealing a good amount of damage and ignoring armor. Good for farming as well as part of the potkill combo, and for chasing fleeing ennemies. Also ok for harrass on the watchtowers when you know someone's up there, but be careful, FF doesn't usually have a great mana regen, so don't waste too much mana that way.

(F, 400 mana) : Fire Pressure : FF's ultimate skill. It does a great amount of damage especially at close range, it's a really powerful spell when combined with the rest of the potkill combo. Good aoe. Use it.

Now we continue with basic tactics and builds used for FF.

First off, when you start a game as FF, you have to be careful not to push your lane too fast. Indeed, with its short atk range, FF can't really attack the creep once he pushed it to its own turrets. So you have to proceed carefully.
At the start, you can attack both exp crates at once, you usually won't get stolen. Just in case, you can shift queue the seconde exp tank so you atk it immediately if the first one gets stolen.
Then you go to the first marines group. Do a bit of splitting with yours, but it doesn't matter too much, you'll finish first anyway.
When you attack, make sure to position yourself properly so that 1 or 2 marines stay out of your attack's aoe. That way, if you took both exp crates, you'll get to lvl 2 without having pushed back your lane. (basically, by splitting, your opponent is helping you to do this)
The right way to do it
The wrong way to do it

And if you did it right....

Tadaaa !

At lvl 2, put 2 mins into attack. This will make farming easier and harrassing ennemy hero much more efficient. Be sure to splash them with your aoe if they try to split, this dmg could come in handy later.
Mana at lvl 2 is useless, you'll only unlock the headbutt, which is just bad for farming.
Back off a little, and wait for the ghosts to arrive without touching the 1 or 2 remaining marines. Then just atk the ghosts without worry, by the time you finish them more marines will be coming.
Proced carefully again, not killing them all at once, and after that it's the big marines spawn.
Then, you're basically safe, and you can go back to your base if you push too much.

As for the builds, there are quite a few, mostly 4 mana.
Myself, i mainly use 2 :

The first one is a bit safer, i use it against casters and flimsy heroes. It goes like this :
lvl 1 : mana
lvl 2 : atk atk
lvl 3 : mana mana
lvl 4 : atk mana
lvl 5 : headbutt atk
then atk, ulti when you hit 400 mana, speed starting lvl 9-10 (with speed boost earlier), etc (armor/health)

The shop order is quite safe, with mana regen, speed, then shields along with lots of mana pots.

The kill combo goes about like this : X-C-V-C-V, using the slow of the X to stay in contact. If the ennemy is a little damaged, the kill is 100% sure, X-C-V is even often enough.

The second is more aggressive, with more firepower early, i use it against melee and heroes with lots of hp (genesic, mechatron, etc....)
lvl 1 : mana
lvl 2 : atk atk
lvl 3 : mana mana
lvl 4 : atk mana
lvl 5 : headbutt ulti
then atk, speed, etc

The shop order is quite different, as you go back at shop by 850 gas to buy a manapack and a pot. Then you kill. Don't try to potkill before ulti. Farm with atk and remaining mana from pot, go back, repeat. You delay your mana regen to crush the other guy.You can usually kill in one single combo for a long time that way, especially if you end up overleveled (careful not to die).
Then the kill combo is quite simpler than the first one : 90% of the ennemies will die to X-C-F, even at full health. (even more so because you level fast at the start, so you often have 1 or 2 more lvls than them).
If it still moves, kill it with more fire : V, wait a bit, circle around, X-C is usually more than enough.

Now, about FF's role in a team, it's quite simple really. He's like a melee that can actually push his lane a take his bunkers faster than a lot of casters thanks to his turrets. Once his lane is crushed and the poor other guy is down 3 to 4 levels, FF starts to really have fun as he goes into the midlle lane and helps out by killing everything that crosses his path, holding watchtowers for his teammates, helping the pushes with his turrets and sniping out of position heroes thanks to his great mobility (speed+headbutt). Be careful in the lategame battles, you no longer have the burst to kill anyone in under 1 sec, so don't attack without your teammates. Use your turrets for attack or defense as needed.
A speed card is really useful once you start running around the whole map.

Well then, that wraps it up, thanks for reading my blabbering if you actually took the time to do it, if not, well just go play zedait and we'll see who laughs in the end ^_^
(oh, and stay away from hades and horus, they smell)
(but srsly Michi, plz stop picking hades eveytime you think there is a possibility i might go for FF, i makes me cry tears of blood)

And finally, as fanservice, there you go :

(btw pac, if you still have the NenDD replays, that would be great if you could post them around here, thx)

(to be edited/completed, feedback much appreciated)


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Re: ForceFire Guide

Post  SadFace on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:33 pm

afaik 3 mana variant also works in certain matchups tho i dont know which since im not really an ff player anymore but iv seen it in a korean rep or 2.

also if ur fast enough and hav enough mana lategame: xfc is better than xcf cos u dont get the delay between c and f and u can often use a pot first with 350 gas and get the kill at level 4 with xcv but thats a more aggro based style which delays ur regen for another farm trip

also deleting old guide since this covers the guide and then some.

Last edited by SadFace on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:37 pm; edited 2 times in total


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Re: ForceFire Guide

Post  Plice on Mon Nov 21, 2011 6:33 pm

Wow, this is an actual legit guide ahahaha Good work Very Happy

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Re: ForceFire Guide

Post  pacman on Mon Nov 21, 2011 8:07 pm

this is a good basic guide.


1. after you level up at first level, dont try to farm until the snipers get there. literally JUST attack the opponent. hell, i dont even split some times Very Happy the point of this is to either make them go heal with your 60 dps or delay them from killing your first four marines for as long as possible (the next set of marines spawns as soon as you kill 4).
but, then again, i am about as aggro of a player as it gets

2. the second build you posted is not a build i like at all. there are many problems with getting the ultimate that early (its weak at that level, you are investing an early 500 gas into pack and 1 mineral that could be attack, and you regen even with pot will be so shitty it will fuck your combo)

3. Shop orders: the CLASSIC BUILD- aggressive (if you are looking for lots of kills).
mana regen -> booster -> mana pack (try to get this at 350 mana to get your ultimate early) -> shields x 2 -> mana regen -> shields x 3

the PACMAN BUILD- i personally find that i really don't need speed or an early ultimate to kill people
mana regen x 2 -> booster -> shields x 3 -> teleport -> max shields -> shield + health regen -> max health -> max respawn time

i don't really know the details cuz i don't like this build, but its almost like genesic hunter build
card + pot + early ult

somewhere in ALL OF THESE there get teleport, 1 shield regen, and 1 health regen
always carry at least 1 mana pot. after lvl 12 or so, i like to carry 2 mana 1 health

4. DONT GET SPEED POINTS. really, i know this is weird, but trust me. if you don't get speed or speed card and solely rely on boosters + headbutt, you can max attack by about lvl 15. as soon as you hit max attack, max out speed. this is a strange tip... but i learned it from observing NenDD (the best ff).
obviously, if you feel you really need speed, upgrade it. but most of the time, you shouldn't need it.

5. Priorities after level 3: 1. constantly kill the character in your lane 2. farm your lane (creeps + tanks) 3. push your buidlings (i know number three on your priority list seems low, but really, farming only takes a couple seconds and you can't push safely while your opponent is in your lane) 4. gank (once you push your lane, which is hopefully before anyone else in the game, start killing people, assisting your allies, and pushing everything!)

6. really late game, when you no longer have the ability to kill people in one combo, focus on pushing rather than sniping. obviously, if you have the help of an ally, you can kill people or make those bitches go heal. but your main job is to go push

7. Tip: most people probably know this, but the ledges overlooking the 2 watchtowers closest to the enemies middle bunker are nice places to camp
Tip: use headbutt to blink out of ANY spell
Tip: To push t2, you can get a colonel and pf with one mana pot: queue up these commands: walk near colonel, walk to gate, place ten turrets in semicircle around pf. once those commands happen, all 10 turrets should be splashing both the pf and the colonel. then, use your pot to xcfvcv.


hope this helps.
if you need any advice against specific characters i am happy to help

p.s. annako: wtf u sayin yo. my ff counters hades all day long


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Re: ForceFire Guide

Post  SungJ on Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:23 pm

pacman wrote:4. DONT GET SPEED POINTS. really, i know this is weird, but trust me. if you don't get speed or speed card and solely rely on boosters + headbutt, you can max attack by about lvl 15. as soon as you hit max attack, max out speed. this is a strange tip... but i learned it from observing NenDD (the best ff).
obviously, if you feel you really need speed, upgrade it. but most of the time, you shouldn't need it.

In order to do this way you should get speed cards at some point. NenDD does it too.
This "no speed stat" build works when you're sure you can kill ppl in 2seconds.
Otherwise if you are underleveled you won't have enough attack points nor money for speed cards
so get just 2-3 speed points for safety.
I'm not force fire expert either like pacman is but it's my observation from KR Force Fire players.


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