Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  pacman on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:22 am

Cyclo wrote: I seemed an infinitesimal amount extreme
ok i'm trying to take you seriously and read what you say, so don't make it hard.

sungj: yah that makes sense, i was pretty happy with the janne nerf. geist... i always thought he didn't really fit into ct: he wasn't well thought-out cuz maxstorm left right after making him. there were so many issues with him that, tbh, im glad he is gone. now genesic: i don't really understand the nerf o.0 as far as i can tell, his lvl3-5 mana card farming tanks (and only tanks. farm creeps is about the same as before) seems to be nerfed.
well... i think that the ideal power for a hero is somewhere between t1 and t2, so this is perfect. i gotta say, i agree with what semi-kim is doing (except horus lol).

btw who does ping main now?

pacman

Posts : 483
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SungJ on Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:43 am

pacman wrote:btw who does ping main now?

zedait

SungJ
Admin

Posts : 387
Join date : 2011-08-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SadFace on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:15 am

he still a beast?

SadFace

Posts : 468
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SungJ on Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:17 am

SadFace wrote:he still a beast?

#1 zedait

SungJ
Admin

Posts : 387
Join date : 2011-08-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Ikumo on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:34 am

What hell the fuck. The new heroes suck.

Ikumo

Posts : 89
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SadFace on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:37 am

thats cos they look too good so they hav to suck to offset how awesome they look

SadFace

Posts : 468
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Cyclo on Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:40 am

Infinitesimal:indefinitely or exceedingly small synonyms: imperceptable, insignificant, microscopic, miniature, miniscule.

For Pacman to know.

Cyclo

Posts : 343
Join date : 2011-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  pacman on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:00 am

of course i fucking know what it means.
stop trying to use words that are longer than four letters. you are using them wrong and sound like bedlamite.

(aw yeah that word isn't even in spellchecker and i didn't have to use a dictionary, so fuck you i win)

pacman

Posts : 483
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Ikumo on Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:43 am

=.=

The new heroes move... fast and that's about it.

Oh btw, orochi's v move only hits 80% of the distance as the actual max distance says it goes.

>Been fucked too many times by this.

>Ult makes you EVEN FASTER. WOAAAHHH.

Oh and also, Orochi = first "mode" only hero. Suggestions: Make Orochi look flamboyantly gay and cum sparklez like genesic's ultimate.

I don't get the dwarven king change. What was the point behind this? Seems kinda weird that only his summons cost vespene?






Ikumo

Posts : 89
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SadFace on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:29 pm

no all summons in the past always cost vespene to cancel, if u wanted to cancel to deny gas/exp

now u can cancel without losing gas... and didnt even know u got mana back for a cancel XD

edit: stupid argument about 4 letter words removed go settle it with pms

SadFace

Posts : 468
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Alexander on Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:24 pm

Summons should give a little more gas then they already do so that there can be more micro of denying.

Alexander

Posts : 239
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  After-Life on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:37 am

Well so we have to see about Fobos but i think e whould do well in tier rankings. His Z does the same as Ron's x and it costs 75. Then we get to his x skill that looks life Fangs ulti but works like hook the c skill is also a good skill and with a xczczf its gg. but this is just what i have seen. His Ultim is also crazy not the most damage but think as a support hero he is going to be good. If ultim is used right no one will escape death ever.
avatar
After-Life

Posts : 92
Join date : 2011-08-29
Location : South Africa

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Alexander on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:27 am

Fobos is retarded. He has melee range and can get harassed when he farms marines at start, as well as doing low damage. His nukes are weak and he gets raped by high burst damage and any melee hero. He has a booster that costs 225 mana, and an ulti which at max does 1500 or so damage that takes 3 seconds to take effect (i.e. if you have a potion or teleport, etc. it's useless besides the fact it doesn't do that much damage), as well as make him vulnerable to attack.

The only thing Fobos has going for him is a broken shield.

Alexander

Posts : 239
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Cyclo on Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:38 pm

Alexander is right about Fobos, the Koreans put him where he belongs. In the tier 4 category.
Orochi is better, the tier 3 category.

Cyclo

Posts : 343
Join date : 2011-09-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SadFace on Fri Nov 18, 2011 2:56 pm

isnt it the other way around?

SadFace

Posts : 468
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Alexander on Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:02 pm

Other than Duran, I think Orochi will be next hardest to use for melees. He is certainly much better than Fobos, but does need some work. He can farm pretty well and has a pretty good early game and Tier 1 push, but mid to late he really drops off the scene in my experience. In terms of melee vs melee, I think he falls behind Genesic, BH, FF and Duran, but could compete with Zeros, Lur and Quakers.

AND I AM THE BEST OROCHIMARU PLAYER IN NA, NOT MISHEN Cool

Alexander

Posts : 239
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  pacman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:18 pm

alex are u high?

you are right only about one thing: the koreans have it right.

they say orochi t4, phobos t3 lol. read it again.
orochi is not hard at all. the only thing that makes melee any harder than spamming with a caster is that you have to avoid traps before getting close enough to spam.
orochi = no traps. so, he really can't be that hard.

pacman

Posts : 483
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SadFace on Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:34 pm

also is he actually good at farming early? if u go aa, there is horrendous delays so u cant really do the animation glitch thing that u do with all the other melees and to get effective mode use u need 150 mana which takes a lifetime with him cos his z mode is nowhere near as good as lur's imo and costs more iirc... all his spells are overlapping and arent great at killin creep, he has 1 mana combined with his weaker abilities farming imo is really hard with that dude

his pot combo is slightly odd in the sense that there is a delay similar to zeros' dts when he throws the spear but then everything else blasts out at once, hes impossible to escape from tho if u hav no way of fighting back XD

SadFace

Posts : 468
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Alexander on Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:49 pm

@ pacman

Honestly, I could care less what the Koreans say about Fobos because the truth of the matter is he does very little damage, doesn't have anything with long range (beside ulti which blows) and starts with melee range. If you've ever played him you would know what I'm talking about. The only thing keeping him in T3 (although I don't agree with that at all) is the 50% shield.

And regarding Orochi, I'll tell you why I feel he is harder to play than most of the other melees:

1.) Very slow attack speed means box is vulnerable to theft and you need to know how to reverse split well at the beginning. These are two points that increase the basic knowledge needed early game.

2.) Orochi's hotkeys are counter intuitive. Igniz, Blade and Lur all have their auto attacking spiral attack on hotkey C, whereas Orochi's is earlier on the keyboard at X. This makes it a little strange, although with practice it can be conquered.

3.) Orochi has little burst damage as the game progresses. Early game he is pretty good in terms of that, but as the game progresses V is not that significant in PvP compared to spec laser, crusher, dts, fb, etc. Orochi's main damage is DoT and other than pushing he doesn't have very much going for him.

4.) The slow has to be aimed and the projectile speed is relatively dodgeable by a good blinker or even with good prediction if you are camping the tower since the particle size/area is super small. The aim is very strange as it uses the Raynor snipe line rather than being targetted. Also, the cooldown for his main nuke is 3 seconds as opposed to 2 and that makes a significant difference in burst, making you rely on moving around and using mode to kill.

5.) Orochi if you know how to play can kill most heroes just as fast as any other melee, but as the game progresses and people get shields, he becomes more and more positional. Once the stun is landed, most of the confrontation relies on running around them with the high speed, avoiding damage and dealing DoT.

6.) Mode has no damage reduction and he has no blink ability to escape if trapped by FFs or in general other than running. He ignores some snares but against top tier heroes like Gaia/Janne/Fang that doesn't factor in. Also because his mode doesn't reduce damage that means really positional heroes like Fang with good damage are going to own him.

7.) Finally, one of the main points that drives it home is that you have to use charge manually with him a lot more than average. The combo for him is much more complex than the other melees.

C -> FZ, G, XV

Wtf are you talking about.

He's not that easy to play dude. Once he's mastered, sure, he can be pretty good early game but the main point is that late game he becomes very hard to play if you want to actually kill someone.

Sad, because I really like Orochi. Too bad he suxxxxxxx. I would still put him in front of Fobos though, I honestly don't see why the tiers are reversed.

@SadFace

Sorry, but you're pretty wrong about most of everything you said.

I go 4 mana, mana card and pot for early game. I can get ulti at level 4 and farm all sets of tanks before the 5:51 respawn. That's better than any autoattack in the game at that point. His Z is much better than Lur. At max it adds over 400 damage to normal attack - Lur's only amplifies by 100 or something, I don't remember. Also, for early game against a good ranged player you won't be farming with Z but rather X since you get harassed and creep aggro.

Alexander

Posts : 239
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SungJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:41 pm

Alex, I'm just gonna tell you that if you're stuck into a specific timing/style/pattern of playing,
people are gonna read your mind and eventually counter it.
Not that I'm saying you're wrong about anything, I get how the build works in general,
but I just wanted to warn you since you're occasionally too confident of specific build orders you do.
e.g. Macanas's Hades is currently about to face that problem of using the same style all over again and being read.

SungJ
Admin

Posts : 387
Join date : 2011-08-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Alexander on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:54 pm

I'm not too confident. There are only a limited number of total styles for any hero in all possible matchups. With the heroes I play I know all of them. Just because I said 4 mana in the last post doesn't mean that will always be the style.

Even if you can read my mind that I'm doing 4 mana, there isn't much you can do if I push your lane successfully at the beginning. And a good player adapts their style depending on the progress of the lane. 4 mana for me allows me the wiggle room with this hero to have that adaptation, at least if the matchup isn't a hard counter.

Just because I know what Blade Hunter will do but that doesn't mean I can own Blade Hunter all the time. Build order has very little to do with actual PvP skills, but some build orders set you up better for important markers than others.

Concerning Orochi, there is 5 mana build and also 2 mana build. I have tried all of them and found 4-5 more effective in all scenarios, so that was the conclusion.

Alexander

Posts : 239
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  SungJ on Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:58 pm

Alexander wrote:I'm not too confident. There are only a limited number of total styles for any hero in all possible matchups. With the heroes I play I know all of them. Just because I said 4 mana in the last post doesn't mean that will always be the style.

Even if you can read my mind that I'm doing 4 mana, there isn't much you can do if I push your lane successfully at the beginning. And a good player adapts their style depending on the progress of the lane. 4 mana for me allows me the wiggle room with this hero to have that adaptation, at least if the matchup isn't a hard counter.

Just because I know what Blade Hunter will do but that doesn't mean I can own Blade Hunter all the time. Build order has very little to do with actual PvP skills, but some build orders set you up better for important markers than others.

Concerning Orochi, there is 5 mana build and also 2 mana build. I have tried all of them and found 4-5 more effective in all scenarios, so that was the conclusion.

ok then.

SungJ
Admin

Posts : 387
Join date : 2011-08-26

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  pacman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:10 pm

1-3: those make him bad, not hard. BIG difference

4: that is not his main nuke

5-end: contradicting yourself. you say he is deadly but not deadly and that he is hard but not hard.


tl:dr: if you actually look at a tldr for a 3 sentence explanation you are fucking illiterate :p


no but really, you can continue to make posts too long for me to read then claim victory when i don't respond, but orochi is a normal character who sucks.

pacman

Posts : 483
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Alexander on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:25 pm

Guess I'm illiterate Very Happy

I don't care dude. The fact he sucks as the game goes on DOES make him hard. The same argument goes for all tier 4 heroes. If you can win with DK that makes you a real boss. I don't contradict myself, Orochi is very good early game although not as good in melee vs melee battles and against certain enemies. Compared to Fobos, Orochi has a much stronger earlier game so I am surprised by the tier statuses, that's all. I think they simply need to be reversed based on the strength of early game overall.

As the game progresses, he gets weaker and if you win then your team either owns or you're a boss because he's hard to use as people can withstand DoT with shields, etc. It takes running around like crazy and multiple combos in different positions to kill someone with full shields. I've played him consistently since he came out so I think I can speak with some weight.

And I don't claim victory by making large posts. Sometimes things require a little more explanation.

TL;DR -

1. Orochi has a strong early game, stronger than Fobos so the tiers should be reversed imo.
2. His impact in PvP drastically weakens as people get more shields and hp so it makes him difficult to win PvP with.
3. His combinations are more complex than most melees.
4. He sucks late game so if you win you are either really good or you got carried.


Alexander

Posts : 239
Join date : 2011-09-14

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  pacman on Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:44 pm

1. no. koreans are infinitely better than you or i, or than we will be for the next 6 months (no, korea is not untouchable or perfect. watching OLD, OLD replays makes me think we are roughly 6 months behind in skill level. of course, we are decades behind in popularity T_T)
anway, trust them not noobzander

2 & 4. cool hes bad. does that make mighty monk the hardest character?

3. no. i admit the keys screwed me up, but his combo is piece of cake.

oh, and thanks for not trying to make a big-ass wall of text. (really, no trolling, this is a much more effective way to argue)

pacman

Posts : 483
Join date : 2011-08-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Patch Notes - Translation [11/14]

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum