Tips for getting better at C.T.?

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Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  imtd on Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:37 am

Alright, so I'm pretty much a big noob. I know how to use pots and some cards, but what have you guys learned that you think would help me and other noobs who read this get better?
I can pretty much stomp any pub match I get into, but when I run into guys like artemis, alex, abartley, SungJ, macannas, NormalCoffee, pacman and others of their skill level I end up getting owned. So if any you are reading this, or people from EU who are good could give me some tips on what they did to get better that would be awesome

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Ikumo on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:32 am

BM them every game no matter what, even if you win, until you make them sad and dislike playing with you.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Alexander on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:49 am

First off, I don't think pacman and Macanas belong in that list as they are really bad at CT. Secondly:

1. Pick one hero you really like that you feel you can focus on for a while.
2. Find a person that plays that hero or someone in general who is good (i.e. me) and ask them advice.
3. Apply that advice in an inhouse game and then based on the results talk to your person again and get feedback.

There are numerous elements in CT that are fixed, but because each hero is different - the key in leveling and doing well is knowing how to utilize those fixed elements and when.

Respawn timings for both crates/tanks and creep are critical to understand and how/when your hero should be doing what.

Good and bad matchups for that hero need to be understood and how to take advantage/run like hell and trade lanes respectively. For example - Arcane vs Zeros is a pretty hard counter to Zeros, however assuming I can steal both his boxes then the lane is mine. If I don't or he just rushes me then that's different. I may have to choose what to do at that point.

A final point is more of a reflective one - you have to look deep inside that CT heart and ask yourself the ultimate existential question, Am I support, PvP or pushing oriented? This answer will give you an idea of what heroes your personality type can find a role in.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  imtd on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:55 am

I think I like pushing and pvp the most, who would you recommend is the best for a noob to start with? I can't decide on a hero at the moment. Zeros and Hades are two of my favorites, but I was getting really frustrated when I couldn't do anything against a Gaia as zeros, because of his earthquake pathing block.


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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  After-Life on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:03 am

Ok so im no pro but think you should try one of these as it is ranked the best in Korea. Pick one that is best for your play stile and just master him. also look at the build advice the pros have given and find one that works for you. here is the list of best heros.
1 = [Best]
-Berr Nine
-Janne D'Arc
-Hades
-Arcane
-GeneSic Hunter
-Horus
-Fang Dong Feng
-Geist
-Gaia

Good luck with pawning the pros Twisted Evil
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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  NoonEe on Tue Nov 01, 2011 10:59 am

Pick Fang, dont loose unless vs other fang or vs someone who is way better that you.
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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  SungJ on Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:37 pm

Come to cityoftempest channel NA server at 7pm pst on Tues/Wed/Thurs and PM me.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Cyclo on Wed Nov 02, 2011 2:20 am

SungJ(in game KrK) and Barsark like to grow the community and give out lessons to whoever asks. Barsark will full on tutor you SungJ might just give you tips but those are good enough. Basically just keep playing inhouses and you'll get better, if you want to get better faster get a coach and look at replays of NA inhouses first then Korean ones so the Korean ones don't totally blow your mind.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Pseudoku on Wed Nov 02, 2011 10:42 pm

I just suggest watching Korean replays. Just by imitating them you'll do better.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  pacman on Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:18 pm

also, remember nobody (except for me and several koreans) are perfect. so take all advice everyone else gives with a grain of salt. don't strive to imitate people... strive to be better than them.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Pseudoku on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:37 am

pacman wrote:also, remember nobody (except for me and several koreans) are perfect. so take all advice everyone else gives with a grain of salt. don't strive to imitate people... strive to be better than them.

Problem is, he can't even come close to them...

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  imtd on Thu Nov 03, 2011 2:50 am

Are there any CT Korean replays that helped you guys learn a lot? I have seen several posts with Korean replays but I don't have time to watch them all, so if anyone could send me the link to one of those that would be awesome.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Plice on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:12 am

I'd advise you to pick a certain hero to learn if your going to be looking for replays. You can gain general knowledge just by playing and talking with the better players. IMO replays are only good if you want to learn a certain character/how to respond to specific situations. Getting better at ct as a whole comes from just playing more games (with good players, only pubbing will be slower than if you do ih)
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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  pacman on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:34 am

no. who would you listen to? me and pseudoku or plice?

i really am not trying to be negative plice :( but i honestly believe for the new people, massing games without analyzing replays is a quick way to mediocrity, frustration, and quitting. i have seen about five or six people who were at one time better than me follow the pattern i just said.

inhouse whenver you get the chance. if inhouse isn't available, DON'T PUB. just watch replays

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  imtd on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:51 am

Ok so it seems like what I should do is pick one hero and main him and find Korean replays for him. But I don't know who I should focus on. So pacman, who is your best hero? That shall be who I main. Just so long as it isn't Berr nine.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Plice on Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:16 am

pacman wrote:no. who would you listen to? me and pseudoku or plice?

i really am not trying to be negative plice Sad but i honestly believe for the new people, massing games without analyzing replays is a quick way to mediocrity, frustration, and quitting. i have seen about five or six people who were at one time better than me follow the pattern i just said.

inhouse whenver you get the chance. if inhouse isn't available, DON'T PUB. just watch replays

I think you misunderstood me. If you are trying to get overall better at ct (referring to things such as mechanics, quick and smart reactions, constantly farming, looking at minimap a lot, etc. Then you HAVE to play a lot of games. Watching hours of replays wouldn't help those things really at all. You have to practice.

On the other hand what replays do is they teach you specifics. Replays are the quickest way to getting decent at this game because it teaches you that if X situation happens then Y situation is a correct response. I think that both studying of replays and practice are needed (with an emphasis on practicing) it doesn't matter how much you understand something if you can't execute.

What I've been personally doing is playing my games (if no ih I go to Korea pubs usually, a lot of them are about as good as a NA ih) the second I find a flaw or something challenging I go to a player who is better than me (usually Sungj or barsark) and ask their opinion on it. (remember anybody can be wrong even top level Koreans. The play styles are constantly evolving to be better. I remember barsark telling me how he went 3 mana until some really good player (i think mishen...) told him all the Koreans went 5 mana. Barsark then changed his build for 5 mana. Then the same Person came back and said the Koreans discovered that 3 mana was better lol.) Anyways lol, after I find others opinions I figure out how to solve the problem. I'll go into a ct game all by myself and just try out different builds. See if I get enough gas by a certain level to get certain items from the shop and stuff like that. Once I think I've come up with a reasonable solution that should work I ask friends to play a certain character and strategy to see how well it works. (if there is someone who mains the character I try to play with them because obviously it is better practice. Always try to play with people who are better than you. MUCH better practice.)

Sorry if this is a giant wall if text. I am doing this on my itouch and it takes forever to scroll so I don't want to take the time to edit. Maybe when I have a chance to on my computer.

Also pacman I don't get offended if someone disagrees with an opinion of mine. Don't worry about sounding negative Very Happy
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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  SungJ on Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:32 am

If you do insist to pub meet someone like Uriel by chance and rage quit like I did just now.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  imtd on Thu Nov 03, 2011 5:40 am

I played albert (uriel) in a pub just now but he didnt take me serious so it wasn't even practice for me. If albert is reading this, then if you ever face keisho in a pub plz go tryhard i want to learn

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Alexander on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:33 am

lol ^^ Zedait > Blade Hunter??!?!?

Replays and practice are the best way to get better. By practice I mean playing against good players and trying your best to organize or participate in inhouse games. Watching replays only is too theoretical, and playing games only will not give you the finer points.

Give you an example with Zeros.

I used to be religious about 3 mana, and I played against Xelnaga/3Bears with Lur vs Zeros. He got his ulti at level 7 (with 3 you get it at level 9) and went 4 mana instead. I didn't expect that, and got raped pretty hard. So, I watched the replay to see what did he do exactly since I didn't have time to think about it.

As a result, I started experimenting with 4 mana Zeros and I liked some things. Then by trying different combinations at different times, I realized I can get DTS even earlier for a more pot-aggro build, at level 5 (4 levels earlier) by doing 4 mana and a mana card at the right time to allow the DTS.

So, weave between theory and practice and that is the journey of learning in any realm.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Cyclo on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:41 pm

So yes everyone requires something different in training, personally I learn better by playing good games and getting a little advice on sticky situations that I have trouble with. Pacman is definitiely a big believer in watch replays and imitate. Alex believes in the middle and SungJ/Barsark believe in coaching sessions.

I think coaching sessios are the best because then you can talk with the player and they'll tell you exactly how they play and what you're supposed to be doing with such and so character. My teammate/friend Breeze was a terrible CT player. Barely above average pub level until he got coached by Barsark. After that he was quite good at CT. So I would say have one SungJ/Barsark/etc. coaching session(you 1v1 in a replay and he tells you what to do with such and so chars. and can tell you what you should always be doign). Then when your brain is overloaded with information you never knew you play inhous games and try it out. Then once after coaching sessions and inhouse games you look at replays to finetune 1 character that you can always rely on to be good(mine was Zeros) in an inhouse game. Then you try out new people until you get a playstyle. Coaching is the fastest way to get better and then inhousing I think is equal to watching replays. Macanas also got good fast instead of coaching he analyzed Korean replays of Hades and purely played Hades every game for like a week. Now he's extremely good as Hades, but okay with any other character. Breeze is better at more characters than Macanas, but Macanas is better with Hades than Breeze is with any of his characters. So you can pick and choose what you want to get better but you will end up with a mix of replays/inhouses/coaching.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  SadFace on Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:14 pm

only issue with coaching session is there is always an slight imposing of style from the person coaching u.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Cyclo on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:37 pm

That's why you get multiple coaches. SungJ is a lot less economic as Barsark. If you have multiple coaches the thing is, it's reasonably easy to tell what's stylistic. Shop choices are ALWAYS stylistic. Alex always goes pot+card. Kills you with the pot then farms all the tanks with the card. Barsark gets a mana card if he feels behind to try and catch up and gets a mana pot to use defensively as in they attack you so you use the mana pot to kill them and save yourself. It's stylistic, if you tell them what chars. you like them you can discover what your playstyle is. I personally always gravitate towards high damage mage characters. Once you find your playstyle find someone you admire or such and get a coach. Take everything with a grain of salt since most things are standard. but style fits into it as well. Horus can get anywhere from 2-6mana. What determines the amount you get is what you like to do normally aka your style. Yes naturally your playstyle will be a large amount like your coach's after a coaching session. But over time your playstyle will determine what you do.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  pacman on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:40 pm

cyclo blows ass. shows what coaching does.

watch replays.


(oh, and yes, i will flame you in every single post for the lolz)

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Alexander on Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:21 pm

Replays without actually practicing them and getting some feedback is a limited approach if you are starting out and lack the basic understanding of game mechanics.

And Horus with 6 mana? I think I just barfed my mouth yo.

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Re: Tips for getting better at C.T.?

Post  Thrallsa on Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:48 pm

Alexander wrote:Replays without actually practicing them and getting some feedback is a limited approach if you are starting out and lack the basic understanding of game mechanics.

And Horus with 6 mana? I think I just barfed my mouth yo.

You can go 30 mana before anything else and still win with horus.

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