Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  michi on Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:15 pm

Hyperi0n wrote:I called wong tong underpowered once. Idra and Alexander where all like "durr you just suck at the game you're not playing him right" Well guess what fuckers? HE GOT BUFFED. Koreans listened to me or they share the same opinions. Either way, I was right. Now Horus got a small change and Alexander is ranting on about him being underpowered? Oh god lol

in my opinion last patch was no buff for fang dong, also the horus thing was because alex thought that silence is 50% less dmg but its 80% so he is fine i think, also he got more pop in eu now, dont know if its same in korea.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SadFace on Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:26 pm

uhh last thing was a DEFINITE buff to fang, his early-mid farming/harass went through the roof. and horus is sooo annoyin now since he effectively multisilences a lot of characters taht rely on ulti damage output plus he still makes 1 of the 3 ppl useless and his early game is viable now with pots.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  TacoAvenger on Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:43 pm

Nono Alexander wasn't complaining that Horus was ruined, he was complaining that Horus was a 1v1 pvper, with no good building pushing, and now it's just a support character, so he wanted the main dmg skill to be overlapping(so he could at least destroy bunkers or something). No one cared so that's why he quit .-. It wasn't really a nerf, but it was too big of a change :V

On a random note: LALA I LOVE YOU! Abel's stim is finally fixed <3<3<3

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  michi on Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:48 pm

TacoAvenger wrote:Nono Alexander wasn't complaining that Horus was ruined, he was complaining that Horus was a 1v1 pvper, with no good building pushing, and now it's just a support character, so he wanted the main dmg skill to be overlapping(so he could at least destroy bunkers or something). No one cared so that's why he quit .-. It wasn't really a nerf, but it was too big of a change :V

On a random note: LALA I LOVE YOU! Abel's stim is finally fixed <3<3<3

well, in the past horus was realy bad early game but great lategame. now he is better early game pvp and goes more in supporter role lategame, all in all it feels like it was a buff for him.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Alexander on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:20 am

It looks like Hyperion found his way into this forum as well. It's a good thing nobody takes you seriously as a player.

Fang was buffed and nerfed, not just the former. It's nice that you tried to take information out of context to support your point, but we know better. Fang's early game was buffed so that he could farm from level 2-3 faster, but the overall change to the damage is not that significant since his ultimate got reduced. Prior to the patch Fang with 30 attack did 5900 with the ultimate. That means with heroes up to 30 armor it would do more/equal to (at 30 armor) to Zeros' ultimate (4110, ignore armor). No targeting involved, just run around and drop spiders all day.

Fang is probably one of the easiest heroes to use and was still very strong even after the patch.

Regarding Horus, I didn't stop playing because Horus got nerfed. He wasn't the only hero I liked playing. But I did not agree full-heartedly with the changes. The concept of Horus in my opinion was a PvP hero that was used to neutralize one player, like Krizard but more deadly and useful since the silence lasts much longer. I played one game with Horus after the patch (it was a pub game unfortunately) and his early game is much, much stronger. So, that will help him compete in a melee vs melee situation to shut down Blade Hunter/Lur/Duran. This is definitely a big plus.

However-

Nobody seems to realize what I was saying regarding being able to use skills. The damage reduction is not what I was complaining about. The fact they can use skills means a number of things mid to late game (even early game versus some heroes). There are numerous skills that I listed earlier that, in inhouse games, anyone with a brain is going to be able to escape such as freeze, fire wall, etc. It was bad enough that people could blink or cast skills fast enough before the silence actually landed on them, now you can still cast after the silence has landed and that is pretty retarded.

This means that past the early game Horus is now going to be useless unless he is always riding with his team. I think trading a stronger early game for complete change in hero concept and 1v1 ability mid-late game is not worth it whatsoever.

What would Duran be if upswing allowed skills at a reduced rate? Or icemage? The whole point of these skills is to -disable- abilities because that's what the hero combinations and concept is based around. With Horus it was silence and now you have changed the critical skill that defines his hero concept leaving him with no consistent PvP or pushing skills later in the game which makes him a substandard support hero since all the others have some 1v1 or pushing later in the game.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Cyclo on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:24 am

Hey SungJ, how come Korea has two heroes that we don't have yet? In fact I never even heard of these two heroes till Plice started playing a few games on the KR. I thought you said the Archon hero was scrapped and yet Korea has it.

Also Barsark and I were toying with an idea to make ranks have merit. First make some of the harder more skill needed chars. like Janne, Zava, etc. need higher ranks to use. This would make new people not pick Janne and go OMG so OP all the other chars. I have no idea how to use this person and it would make it so ranks are actually worth something so it's okay to like ranks. You would need to mkae it harder to move from rank to rank as well as make it so quits don't affec it. It should be based mostly on k/d not oh I quit 2 games because I had to go now my rank is screwed so i can't play my main. But that was just a passing fancy.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SungJ on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:00 am

Cyclo wrote:Hey SungJ, how come Korea has two heroes that we don't have yet? In fact I never even heard of these two heroes till Plice started playing a few games on the KR. I thought you said the Archon hero was scrapped and yet Korea has it.

The current Korean version has major bugs in it, so Semi and I promised to bring them in to other servers

when the major bugs are gone.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Plice on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:06 am

Cyclo wrote:Hey SungJ, how come Korea has two heroes that we don't have yet? In fact I never even heard of these two heroes till Plice started playing a few games on the KR. I thought you said the Archon hero was scrapped and yet Korea has it.

Also Barsark and I were toying with an idea to make ranks have merit. First make some of the harder more skill needed chars. like Janne, Zava, etc. need higher ranks to use. This would make new people not pick Janne and go OMG so OP all the other chars. I have no idea how to use this person and it would make it so ranks are actually worth something so it's okay to like ranks. You would need to mkae it harder to move from rank to rank as well as make it so quits don't affec it. It should be based mostly on k/d not oh I quit 2 games because I had to go now my rank is screwed so i can't play my main. But that was just a passing fancy.

I don't like not being able to play as a character just because your ranking is too low, It would get annoying if you reset your stats or start losing a lot to not being able to play a character. Maybe only placement you can't play certain characters? Overall though I think a better idea would be to add a difficulty rating for each character. So new people at least realize that the character they are playing with is difficult. I do however, like the idea of making it so that quits don't count.

Another idea that I've had before, is making it so that if the majority/all of the players type a certain command, it switches to an ih game. (the command is only told to people that ih regularly) So that you have two ratings, a pub rating and an ih rating. Just an idea Very Happy
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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Cyclo on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:34 am

or that when you make a custom game lobby it doesn't count score.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SungJ on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:40 am

Difficulty rank is a thing that cannot be strictly determined (just like tier rank)
since everyone has different hands/styles/ways of playing.
For example I feel like Megagun Zord is difficult because it relies too much on direct clicks.
Of course there are some that are easy to learn for most people like Zedait
and some that most of us feel difficult to use like Zava
but that doesn't mean all 38 characters out in CT can be ranked in order of difficulty.


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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Cyclo on Mon Oct 24, 2011 12:22 pm

True enough although in general the harder to click characters with more apm that need faster reaction time to not die are the hardest.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Hyperi0n on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:31 pm

Alexander wrote:It looks like Hyperion found his way into this forum as well. It's a good thing nobody takes you seriously as a player.

Fang was buffed and nerfed, not just the former. It's nice that you tried to take information out of context to support your point, but we know better. Fang's early game was buffed so that he could farm from level 2-3 faster, but the overall change to the damage is not that significant since his ultimate got reduced. Prior to the patch Fang with 30 attack did 5900 with the ultimate. That means with heroes up to 30 armor it would do more/equal to (at 30 armor) to Zeros' ultimate (4110, ignore armor). No targeting involved, just run around and drop spiders all day.

Fang is probably one of the easiest heroes to use and was still very strong even after the patch.

Regarding Horus, I didn't stop playing because Horus got nerfed. He wasn't the only hero I liked playing. But I did not agree full-heartedly with the changes. The concept of Horus in my opinion was a PvP hero that was used to neutralize one player, like Krizard but more deadly and useful since the silence lasts much longer. I played one game with Horus after the patch (it was a pub game unfortunately) and his early game is much, much stronger. So, that will help him compete in a melee vs melee situation to shut down Blade Hunter/Lur/Duran. This is definitely a big plus.

However-

Nobody seems to realize what I was saying regarding being able to use skills. The damage reduction is not what I was complaining about. The fact they can use skills means a number of things mid to late game (even early game versus some heroes). There are numerous skills that I listed earlier that, in inhouse games, anyone with a brain is going to be able to escape such as freeze, fire wall, etc. It was bad enough that people could blink or cast skills fast enough before the silence actually landed on them, now you can still cast after the silence has landed and that is pretty retarded.

This means that past the early game Horus is now going to be useless unless he is always riding with his team. I think trading a stronger early game for complete change in hero concept and 1v1 ability mid-late game is not worth it whatsoever.

What would Duran be if upswing allowed skills at a reduced rate? Or icemage? The whole point of these skills is to -disable- abilities because that's what the hero combinations and concept is based around. With Horus it was silence and now you have changed the critical skill that defines his hero concept leaving him with no consistent PvP or pushing skills later in the game which makes him a substandard support hero since all the others have some 1v1 or pushing later in the game.
Not gonna bother reading your gibberish, as always you can't fucking put up a good argument without spouting a bunch of shit and insulting the other person. Btw,
>One skill nerfed
>3 skills buffed
Yeah, CLEARLY A NERF for wong tong.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  pacman on Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:57 pm

^ ay stfu

you just did exactly what you said you shouldn't do

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  michi on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:00 pm

its 2x starting dmg which is nothing after some lvls, the other increasing one also do no dmg compared to his ulti

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SadFace on Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:29 pm

on a side note nobody realises how much of a difference the c and v buffs do now... fang is scary now since those 2 moves are actually incredibly good now Sad massive range brilliant harassment or if forced just decent safe pushing methods Sad his early-mid got a tonne better Sad whereas his ulti is still awesome mid-late with minidongs but in terms of chasing it has ALWAYS been cv that let him get the kill along with his ulti cos it kept them in range while dealing enough damage to whipe out any attempts at health pots

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Alexander on Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:15 pm

You guys don't get that a moving pylon makes this hero ez mode period. Any other arguments of nerf or buff or C or V or w/e are pointless aside this fact.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SungJ on Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:30 pm

I don't know if you guys would agree,
but even in KR lvl Fang is currently top tier, and Horus has become much better in team fights.

Fang's C and V has ridiculous range, so with the damage buff fang can easily reduce the opponent's hp,
and whenever they decide to manapot you turn on cyclone / z and health potion to lure & kill them.
It's happening all the time in whatever KR game I recently watch with fang.

Horus also now has crow armor + x skill 80% reduction so it's super tanky
and most importantly his ult shuts down every mineral-learned skill.
This includes "Chaos Beam", "Light Wing", "God Shield", "Hell Strike", "Rolling Thunder", "Bio Spectrum", etc etc.
So if opponent team is clumped up for ganking they will be screwed vs horus.
You might counter-argue that all they have to do is step out of horus' ult
but horus' ult as you know pops out almost instantly with wide range and good slow,
so horus can choose where/who to mess up and let the team or crow seeker finish them
when they can't escape with big slow effect and fewer devices to move away from the hurricane.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SadFace on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:50 pm

i would definitely agree and this is basically wat we see in eu (for both fang and horus) Sad also only way of killin horus is laning him against some range burst or trapper and raping him completely without hope of crawling back(as in more extreme than in the past) or else all hell will break loose


Last edited by SadFace on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Modesty on Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:53 pm

SadFace wrote:i would definitely agree and this is basically wat we see in eu Sad only way of killin horus is laning him against some range burst or trapper and raping him completely without hope of crawling back(as in more extreme than in the past) or else all hell will break loose

lol yes
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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Alexander on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:23 am

I agree, and Horus will be a bitch now in group battles. Probably the best supporting hero currently. However, that said I still reiterate my point that his 1v1 ability disappears late game and he has no pushing power whatsoever beyond tier 1. I think the latter at least needs to be addressed in some way. If not making it overlapping, then give buildings and colonel/general mana so that it does more damage or something.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  pacman on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:43 am

dude... hate to pull this card, but you haven't played with him.

hes ridiculous. the buff is insane: he is basically god-tier. i would be extremely surprised if he doesn't get an enormous nerf/change next patch.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Cyclo on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:21 am

The only two people I saw use old Horus inhouse were you and Plice. I've seen multiple people use New Horus to great effect recently. An excellent supporting hero though I doubt he's better than Abel with his blink and beam mobility.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  Thrallsa on Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:24 am

pacman wrote:dude... hate to pull this card, but you haven't played with him.

hes ridiculous. the buff is insane: he is basically god-tier. i would be extremely surprised if he doesn't get an enormous nerf/change next patch.

This man speaks the truth, a horus that doesn't suck will never (I mean NEVER) lose a lane unless you keep ganking him all the freaking time (every 1-2 min at least).

Before it was possible to hold through the silence early with a hp pot or better just run away. Now you get 2 shotted by feedback, so if he doesn't kill you, you need to go heal every time all the time.

If it wasn't enough with OP damage and a "silence", he now also disable every other ulti in the game, so yeah gg hf. We have pubs in EU that are winning our IH's because of this horus BS.

EDIT: I found duran to be somewhat successful though if you towercamp and upswing combo all the time.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  SungJ on Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:25 am

Ok today all day I've been going through words like "OP" "Useless" "tier ranks" for characters in CT.
I scratched a list of tire ranks of characters referring from the Korean forums.
Would you guys like me to post this "KR standard tier rank list" on a seperate thread and update it after each patch?

Technically in this forum we are more than free to show opinions about character balance for this game
but I'm asking ahead of time just because I want to be certain if that list will help these issues to get settled down.
I'm also kind of hesitant because I am a map/patch translator
so I am afraid if my action to post that thing up might result as a loss in credit of my neutrality.
Yet the reason I bring up this question is that I want to provide a clear reference to what balance seems in top level.

If you want to hear about this list of tiers or not from me please let me know.

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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

Post  NoonEe on Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:35 am

Yea... I'd like to see that list ^_^
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Re: Patch Notes - Translation [10/15]

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